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VB Forum / Win API / March 2008Reboot win2k into dos on ramdisk?
I have an application that won't run in a dos box under win2k. The HD is the only bootable device. I'd like to have win2k reboot into dos mode and run it from a ramdisk. Ghost and other disk imaging programs do this. Ghost even gives the option to add files to the ramdisk before the reboot. But it's cumbersome and there are licensing issues if I want to do this on multiple machines. Is there a tutorial on how to accomplish creating and rebooting to a ramdisk file system? Dual-boot would work for this task, but I have other ideas that would require the ramdisk boot solution. Thanks, mike  SignatureReturn address is VALID! >I have an application that won't run in a dos box under win2k. > The HD is the only bootable device. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > that would require the ramdisk boot solution. > Thanks, mike What does this have to do with VB? >> I have an application that won't run in a dos box under win2k. >> The HD is the only bootable device. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > What does this have to do with VB? If I can't program it in VB, it ain't gonna get done. SignatureReturn address is VALID! -boot would work for this task, but I have other ideas >>> that would require the ramdisk boot solution. >>> Thanks, mike >> >> What does this have to do with VB? >> > If I can't program it in VB, it ain't gonna get done. In which case it ain't gonna happen. At least not the way you are suggesting. Unless you tell us what the DOS application is doing. It might be easier to re-write the DOS app for win32 or somebody might know of a loadable environment which supports the DOS app. Regards Dave O. >I have an application that won't run in a dos box under win2k. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx Actually, there's better DOS support in VPC2004... http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=6D58729D-DFA8-40BF-AFAF -20BCB7F01CD1&displaylang=en Best group for followup: microsoft.public.virtualpc Signature.NET: It's About Trust! http://vfred.mvps.org >> I have an application that won't run in a dos box under win2k. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Best group for followup: microsoft.public.virtualpc Thanks, but VPC is worse than a dosbox. It doesn't support the hardware at all. You only get what it emulates, one step removed. The reason I can't use a dosbox is cause I want to directly bit-bang the hardware without restriction. I really don't want to discuss alternative ways to access the hardware while running win2k. What I want is to reboot to a ramdisk in dos. I was hoping I could create a ramdisk, populate it and reboot. But there's likely a bunch of "housekeeping" that needs to happen. Can I do anything in the runonce registry key? I suspect windows is too far along by then, but not sure??? Can you suggest a better newsgroup than winapi to ask this question? Or even a relevant search term? Google has gotten me nowhere. Thanks, mike SignatureReturn address is VALID! > I was hoping I could create a ramdisk, populate it and reboot. But > there's likely a bunch of "housekeeping" that needs to happen. No housekeeping in the world is going to accomplish that. Go ahead and create the Ramdisk. As soon as you reboot, it's gone. > Can I do anything in the runonce registry key? I suspect windows is too > far along by then, but not sure??? > > Can you suggest a better newsgroup than winapi to ask this question? > Or even a relevant search term? I really don't see this as being a programming issue at all (regardless of what programming language you use). You just gotta configure the system(s) to do what you need, if you even can. SignatureMike Microsoft MVP Visual Basic >>> I have an application that won't run in a dos box under win2k. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks, but VPC is worse than a dosbox. > It doesn't support the hardware at all. Ah, shoulda known. Hardware dependency. Yep, that's a non-starter then. > The reason I can't use a dosbox is cause I want to directly bit-bang the > hardware without restriction. We keep an old box that dual-boots between DOS 6.22 and Win95 here, for that sort of thing. Win95 is there just so it can connect to the network and transfer files around, then it's rebooted to DOS for the real work. > I really don't want to discuss alternative ways to access the hardware > while running win2k. What I want is to reboot to a ramdisk in dos. Why a ramdisk, specifically? > I was hoping I could create a ramdisk, populate it and reboot. But > there's likely a bunch of "housekeeping" that needs to happen. You might find something useful, here: http://www.bootdisk.org (and/or bootdisk.com) The ones with "universal cdrom drivers" usually also setup ramdisks. > Can I do anything in the runonce registry key? I suspect windows is too > far along by then, but not sure??? Yep, after it goes graphical, DOS is out of the picture. > Can you suggest a better newsgroup than winapi to ask this question? > Or even a relevant search term? > Google has gotten me nowhere. Try that link above. I'd also be using "dual-boot" in your searches. Example: http://www.google.com/search?q=dual+boot+windows+2000+dos Signature.NET: It's About Trust! http://vfred.mvps.org >I have an application that won't run in a dos box under win2k. The HD >is the only bootable device. I'd like to have win2k reboot into dos >mode and run it from a ramdisk. Ghost and other disk imaging programs >do this. They do? I haven't seen such a feature. I've seen mention of it for the Mac side, but I didn't know something like that was possible in Windows. It makes sense on the Mac side since there's built in support for this sort of functionality. >Ghost even gives the option to add files to the ramdisk before the >reboot. But it's cumbersome and there are licensing issues if I want to >do this on multiple machines. Unless I'm missing some big piece of this puzzle, to do something like this, you're going to need to alloc physical RAM, and somehow either instruct the BIOS to boot off of it, or do some fiddling with the boot loader to load a ram driver and launch your RAM drive wherever it's been loaded into memory. In other words, not something for the faint of heart, and not something I think you'll find sample code to do, much less code in VB to do. If I had to do this, I'd look into using something like GRUB to do the booting for me, and see if there's any way I could point GRUB to use a configuration file on a FAT drive that can be easily changed as needed by either the DOS or Win2K side of things. Signature--------- Scott Seligman <scott at <firstname> and michelle dot net> --------- The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money. -- Alexis de Tocqueville >I have an application that won't run in a dos box under win2k. What does this app do that's not possible while running Windows? Win2k is/was a great OS. Is this some kind of "in house" app? You'd be surprised at what you can do in VB/Windows. You're gonna have to spill it here... you have me wondering what can't be done in VB/Windows... If a console app is your only solution, gotta ask, why VB? > If I can't program it in VB, it ain't gonna get done. But.... why? <g> There are DOS versions of basic still floating around. There are also many languages that have shareware/freeware/open source compilers that'll probably run from DOS... SignatureKen Halter - MS-MVP-VB - Please keep all discussions in the groups.. In Loving Memory - http://www.vbsight.com/Remembrance.htm >> I have an application that won't run in a dos box under win2k. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > There are also many languages that have shareware/freeware/open source > compilers that'll probably run from DOS... This all started when I was trying to do an OS install on a legacy free laptop that wouldn't boot from anything but the internal hard drive. I could load the drive on a different system, but couldn't, at the time, figger out how to install the os onto the drive it booted from. So, I'm not interested in how wonderful win2k is or how to run stuff from win2k. I'm interested in learning how the drive imaging programs reboot to an OS on a ramdisk. It happens every day, but the process is either secret or immune to my google search terms. mike SignatureReturn address is VALID! > I'm interested in learning how the drive imaging programs reboot > to an OS on a ramdisk. It happens every day, but the process > is either secret or immune to my google search terms. It sounds to me more like a BIOS setting than any sort of programming endevor.... LFS >This all started when I was trying to do an OS install on a legacy free >laptop that wouldn't boot from anything but the internal hard drive. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >to an OS on a ramdisk. It happens every day, but the process >is either secret or immune to my google search terms. Since when do they do this? Last time I used Norton Ghost, it certainly didn't, and a quick perusal of the recent manual didn't mention this feature. Signature--------- Scott Seligman <scott at <firstname> and michelle dot net> --------- Never do today what you can put off till tomorrow. Delay may give clearer light as to what is best to be done. -- Aaron Burr >> This all started when I was trying to do an OS install on a legacy free >> laptop that wouldn't boot from anything but the internal hard drive. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > certainly didn't, and a quick perusal of the recent manual didn't > mention this feature. I don't understand why you guys are so resistant to this concept. Two seconds of googling found the following quote: When you start the cloning operation from within Windows, Ghost automatically restarts your computer into a DOS environment, performs the cloning operation, and then restarts the computer into Windows. Ghost uses a Ghost Virtual Partition to create the DOS environment. The Ghost Virtual Partition is a file stored on the hard disk. When Ghost restarts the computer, the computer uses the information from that file to load DOS and other required files, and to run Ghost.exe. end quote. Perhaps the confusion stems from my use of the word "ramdisk". It's entirely possible that Ghost does not, in fact, create a ramdisk, but just creates a file system inside a file that is used to load and execute Ghost and its supporting programs out of ram, without further need for a hard drive. If one added a DOS program to create an actual ramdisk and populate it with content from the hard drive, my purpose would be served. That should be trivial. The hard part is figuring out how to construct the virtual partition and get the boot loader pointed at it. No matter what terms you use to describe it, Ghost reboots into dos mode and has everything it needs so it can release the hard drive. LINUX can also be installed to and booted from a virtual partition constructed in a file on a windows hard drive. The technique is widely used, I just have not stumbled on the correct search terms to find the info in the zillion hits of noise that is the internet. SignatureReturn address is VALID! >>> This all started when I was trying to do an OS install on a legacy free >>> laptop that wouldn't boot from anything but the internal hard drive. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >I don't understand why you guys are so resistant to this concept. Because you asked how to do the impossible. >my purpose would be served. That should be trivial. The hard part is >figuring out how to construct the virtual partition and get the boot >loader pointed at it. Hard part is an understatement. As I suggested, you should look into GRUB, as I understand it, it should do most, if not everything, of what you want. If you insist on doing all of this in VB, you'll need to learn how to possibly modify existing partitions, possibly defragment existing partitions, modify the master boot record, and not least of all, create code that can run outside of Windows or DOS. Good luck with that. If you insist on doing all of this in VB, you should first worry about writing an assembler in VB to create the boot loader you'll need, since that clearly can't be pure VB. >No matter what terms you use to describe it, Ghost reboots into >dos mode and has everything it needs so it can release the hard drive. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I just have not stumbled on the correct search terms to find the info >in the zillion hits of noise that is the internet. Signature--------- Scott Seligman <scott at <firstname> and michelle dot net> --------- We all agree on the necessity of compromise. We just can't agree on when it's necessary to compromise. -- Larry Wall in <hcnzj.14385$ES.10055@trnddc05> >This all started when I was trying to do an OS install on a legacy free >laptop that wouldn't boot from anything but the internal hard drive. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >mike I used to use Powerquest for drive imaging and it used 2 floppies. The boot floppy loaded Caldera DOS and the second floppy ran the imaging software. It was great because the first floppy also loaded TCP networking that allowed saving an image across the network. They came out with a version that ran in Windows (you could restore files from the image) but you still had to boot to DOS to image a drive. Unfortunately, they were swallowed by Symantec and the product is now a .NET piece 'o crap. --- Stefan Berglund > This all started when I was trying to do an OS install on a legacy free > laptop that wouldn't boot from anything but the internal hard drive. > I could load the drive on a different system, but couldn't, at the time, > figger out how to install the os onto the drive it booted from. Sounds to me like you've already spent **far** too much time trying to get this, supposedly "Free" laptop to do what you want. Therefore, it's best to turn than thing into landfill and buy a *real* laptop. > So, I'm not interested in how wonderful win2k is or how to run stuff from > win2k. Obviously, it's far more capable than that laptop you keep trying to resurrect... since there seems to be no one to hand you the "magic bullet", how about a 9mm round right through the screen/keyboard of that "Free" laptop <g>... I imagine this is the same beast you wanted a way to flip all windows upside down in, eh? > I'm interested in learning how the drive imaging programs reboot > to an OS on a ramdisk. It happens every day, but the process > is either secret or immune to my google search terms. One thing I guarantee... it's not done in VB. VB requires runtime files. VB can-not run from DOS. There are DOS versions of VB. Buy a new laptop. SignatureKen Halter - MS-MVP-VB - Please keep all discussions in the groups.. In Loving Memory - http://www.vbsight.com/Remembrance.htm >> This all started when I was trying to do an OS install on a legacy free >> laptop that wouldn't boot from anything but the internal hard drive. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > One thing I guarantee... it's not done in VB. VB requires runtime files. VB > can-not run from DOS. There are DOS versions of VB. Buy a new laptop. I HAVE a new laptop. What I want is a way to boot into dos on a random computer who's OS can't reboot into native dos...and do it without having to install a bunch of additional crap. And I'll spend exactly as much time as I like on the subject. If you're worried about how much time YOU spend on the project, that can be easily resolved with YOUR delete key. You have succeeded in convincing me that if I want ANYTHING off the well beaten path, I'm not gonna find it here. Bye for now...but I'll be back next time I have a SIMPLE question. Press that delete key now, before you get the urge to give me more "guarantees". mike SignatureReturn address is VALID! mike <spamme9@gmail.com> schrieb im Beitrag <ZkGzj.12762$v47.12480@trnddc08>... > What I want is a way to boot into dos on a random computer who's OS > can't reboot into native dos...and do it without having to install a > bunch of additional crap. > ... > You have succeeded in convincing me that if I want ANYTHING off the well > beaten path, I'm not gonna find it here. You were given all information a newsgroup called "vb.winapi" is able to give you: a) This can't be done with VB since VB isn't a language for low-level hardware programming - and that is exactly what you needed. And all applications coded with VB depend on Windwos running. b) This can't be done with Windows API programming since the Windows API of course is availabe only as long as Windows is running. The only part of what you want to do and which can be done with the Windows API is the reboot. I don't understand why you don't simply partition the hard disc drive of your notebook: A partition which shall be bootable with DOS has to be - a >primary partition< (on a hard disc drive you can have 4 primary partitions max. or 3 primary and one extended partition) - on the >1st hard disk drive< - within the first 1024 cylinders Then install MS-DOS 6.22, MS Windows 3.x, MS Windows 95, or MS Windows 98 (SE) to this partition. All these Windows versions are DOS based. If none of these is available to you then get FREEDOS which is for free. AFAIK the Windows NT 4.0/2K/XP boot manager is able to boot such partitions. If not you also need a boot manager. A good one is XOSL which AFAIK is also for free. You can also use GRUB or LILO for this (since these are not for Linux only). Of course this isn't a solution which will work on any random computer. But there isn't a solution which will run on any computer unless you are using a boot device other than the hard disc drive (its e.g. no problem with a CD-ROM or a floppy disc drive). Booting from a RAM disc needs manipulation of the boot sector of the hard disc drive, and this presumably isn't an option for any random computer... Signature---------------------------------------------------------------------- THORSTEN ALBERS Universität Freiburg albers@ uni-freiburg.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I don't understand why you don't simply partition the hard disc drive of > your notebook: A partition which shall be bootable with DOS has to be Cuz.. if he can't do it his way, he'll gather up his toys and go play somewhere else. He didn't come here to listen to advice, he came here for someone to hold his hand while he mangled his computer. SignatureKen Halter - MS-MVP-VB - Please keep all discussions in the groups.. In Loving Memory - http://www.vbsight.com/Remembrance.htm >> One thing I guarantee... it's not done in VB. VB requires runtime files. >> VB can-not run from DOS. There are DOS versions of VB. Buy a new laptop. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And I'll spend exactly as much time as I like on the subject. Go ahead... no one here's stopping you.. but, I'll say again... >> One thing I guarantee... it's not done in VB. VB requires runtime files. > If you're worried about how much time YOU spend on the project, that can > be easily resolved with YOUR delete key. Already taken care of... but, thanks for pointing out the obvious. > You have succeeded in convincing me that if I want ANYTHING off the well > beaten path, I'm not gonna find it here. > > Bye for now...but I'll be back next time I have a SIMPLE question. Back for more hand-holding? You can usually find the power button on the front of the PC somewhere. That thing you slide around the table... that's a mouse. > Press that delete key now, before you get the urge to give me more > "guarantees". Bye little boy... don't let the door hit cha where the good lord split cha. Here's another guarantee... You *ARE NOT* going to be able to do it in VB, so find the group that supports "Wizard of Oz" programming and one that won't mind the "I don't have to if I don't want to" attitude you're oozing. SignatureKen Halter - MS-MVP-VB - Please keep all discussions in the groups.. In Loving Memory - http://www.vbsight.com/Remembrance.htm |
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